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We have known each other a long time now. I don’t know if you can remember but we first met when you were the Editor of Land Rover Owner at one of the LRO Challenges that you used to run up at Bala. They were good fun.
Yes they were good, and I think we were the first to do these weekend events for our readers but now, of course, they are commonplace. It was good because it was a way of us getting the readers together and, as it was a new thing – a dedicated Land Rover magazine we were producing – it was a way to get feedback from them, as well as giving them an opportunity to drive their Land Rovers off-road.
When we started we were getting many calls from readers who didn’t know how to go about off-roading, what to do, or where to go. We used to get people turning up in fully prepared Land Rovers, as well as showroom condition vehicles with just road-going tyres. It was really a good cross section.
I would like to ask you now about the Gang Of Four. I don’t know if you have heard that expression before but that is what some in the clubs were calling you and your fellow directors when you started Land Rover Owner magazine.
Really it was not four. It was just two of us to start with. What happened was that I had packed up and moved out of London and was looking for a job up around here in Suffolk, and went for a job as a journalist on the Diss Express. Now the guy who owned it wanted to branch out into magazines, and someone came to him with an idea for a magazine called Van User. It was literally just that, a magazine for people who operate small commercial vehicles and I was taken on to edit that.
The magazine went all right for a while and then the guy who owned it and was already pretty wealthy anyway as far as I know, decided to sell up and went off to live abroad. Those of us who had been working on Van User bought that title from him.
So that carried on for a couple of years and then John Cornwall who was looking after the advertising sales on the magazine and thinking up ways of getting advertising in, hit on the idea of us doing a supplement on Land Rover commercial vehicles. So I wrote the editorial on that and John found that the advertising response was really pretty good as I recall. So we started thinking, “well there could be a magazine here”.
That was 1987 and the more we looked into it we soon realised that even back then – though the scene has come on in leaps and bounds over the years since – there was this huge sort of ‘sub-culture’ of enthusiasts, and the people serving that market. So we decided to have a go, and eventually came up with the name Land Rover Owner. The first issue was July 1987.
I remember that first issue and I have it somewhere at home. It had Captain Mark Phillips on the front cover, as he was working on some promotional events for Land Rover at the time.
Land Rover were very much then after the hunting, shooting and fishing lot, and they wanted to move the product up market. We did wonder at the time whether we also would be aiming for that same market.
Until you went to a club event and met a lot of daft twats like me. (Lots of laughter here)
Exactly. It very soon became clear, in fact, that was not where our readers were going to be. So, yeah, that first issue we printed about 5,000 copies I think, and it was mostly in black and white. So really we were never a gang of four not in the early days.
I think the reason that you were referred to as such was because people always thought that there was a mystery moneyman behind you all.
There was never any financial backing for it at all. We just worked hard doing long hours and took low salaries, as you have to do to get it done.
Was it difficult in the beginning to get it sold?
No not really because there was only the one magazine at that time. Promotion was all done by word of mouth through the club magazines and such like. There was no advertising on TV or anything like that. No, there was no money really for anything like that, and if anybody thought that there was ever money behind us, there never was.
So the next thing that you came up with and were responsible for was Billing. I was at that first one and some of the others since and it was always packed in those early days.
Well, yes, you’re right Charlie, and it came as a big shock to me I can tell you. As you previously mentioned I put those LRO Challenges on to get readers together but they were necessarily quite small events. John Cornwall and I came up with the idea that we should try to put on something like a family weekend. Our idea was to hire an area of land where we could get families to come, and we looked at various things. Really Billing Aquadrome found us rather than the other way round.
It’s weird really why people flocked there as they did and it amazes me.
The original idea was that there would be something for all the family, so dad can go to the auto jumble while mum and the kids can go off if they wish and do their own thing. When EMAP, the big publishers bought LRO they continued to hold the show at Billing for a few years but last year decided that a larger venue was needed. They moved it away from Billing, to Stoneleigh last year and the East of England showground at Peterborough this year. It still gives me pleasure to look back on the good old days of Billing, though, and think I played a part in making it happen, but that particular era is over now.
As I have been listening to you it has just dawned on me that I wonder if any of our readers who, say, might have bought a Discovery five years ago, and have bought our magazine and stayed with us, are aware just what you are responsible for starting.
Probably they are not but, yes I am very proud of the part I played. It was a whole new genre that we started but really I take no particular credit for it other than I did a reasonable job as the editor. Really it was one of those things that just happened you know, it was never some sort of inspired move or anything like that. It was just one of those things that one gets involved with in life and it just seemed to grow by itself almost.
I suppose I must ask you now about something that I know was a bit painful for you and Cathie personally, and that is the buy out, when EMAP, came along and took LRO over from you.
The first thing that I would like to say about it is, that I never wanted it to happen – I didn’t want to sell it. It was a big mistake and I feel even today that a bad decision was made then. My wife Cathie, who is our publisher here at LRM, and I talk about it often and it still hurts even today.
I was simply out-voted. I don’t recall now whether approaches were made to EMAP or they contacted us first, but I remember that another publisher called Future Publishing contacted us earlier, but that did not proceed and Haymarket also wanted to buy it. EMAP asked me to stay on as Editor but I didn’t want to work for a big company again. I certainly didn’t want to move house or commute to their offices at Peterborough every day.
There was a payout, of course and you might think to yourself, “fantastic, who wouldn’t like that”. But in reality there were huge tax bills to pay and what EMAP paid for the magazine had to be spread very thinly amongst the people who were involved at that time. Speaking for myself I could probably have lived off the proceeds for a couple of years, but then what? If ever there was a case of selling the goose that lays the golden eggs, it was selling LRO – definitely a big mistake.
This is something that I have always wanted to ask you, if you don’t mind, did you have to sign a legal document to the effect that you would not start another magazine for a given period.
Yes I did. I was excluded from starting any kind of rival publication for four years from June 1994.
My old mate the late Les Booth and all the lads on the scene at that time thought that you might surface somewhere again because we felt that by then you had got the Land Rover bug, and you had a love of it, and it wasn’t just a journalistic chore for you. |
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Oh yes, absolutely, I did then and I still do. Cathie and I have made many good friends within the scene and I wasn’t about to retire, that’s for sure. Almost immediately after the sale, I worked with Cathie on producing photographer Chris Bennett’s book on the 1994 Camel Trophy and shortly after that we bought Milebrook, the company publishing International Off-Roader, the all makes magazine, and began publishing that under license from EMAP. So that kept our hand in until that four-year period was up.
Was it always your intention to come back with another Land Rover magazine?
Not necessarily. If IOR hadn’t been crippled by an impossible license agreement with EMAP then we might have continued with that which would have been enjoyable to do – it may come as a shock, Charlie, but there are other good 4x4s in the world besides Land Rovers. But the plain fact is that in this country people love their Land Rovers and they buy them and stay with them. It seems as though an all-makes 4x4 magazine will never be as popular in this country as one dedicated exclusively to Land Rover vehicles.
I remember when I saw you at Vic and Helen Jones’ Off-Road London show down at Thamesmead in South London. There was a sudden downpour and I can see you now out in the middle of this huge field, soaked to the skin. We had all run for cover under shop stalls and awnings, and you had a cardboard box full of magazines and a handful of subscription forms, and you actually took your coat off to put over them to protect them. I ran over to you and we scooped them up and we both ran for cover. It must have been really hard when you and Cathie got started.
Yes, now you remind me Charlie, I do remember that. That was an age ago. Actually there was a story to that day. We had a sort of awning affair to stand and trade under, but guess who forgot to put the poles in the 110 as we left home?
You always have to be prepared to put in extra effort when you’re working for yourself, of course, but these are the things one has to do. Being small in the battle with the big boys has it’s advantages too. We had a good laugh when we first launched LRM because EMAP desperately didn’t want us to do it and tried to take legal action against us. Which is why in that very first issue of LRM I am not mentioned within it anywhere – Cathie was the Editor for that one because EMAP claimed I was in danger of infringing my four years exclusion agreement by a week or two! But that’s all water under the bridge and we get on fine with LRO now and there is no problem.
The one thing that I think sets our magazine apart from all the others is that little quote that always appears under our logo. It says: ‘written by enthusiasts for enthusiasts’. Now, although that has been taken up and printed by other magazines, I feel that in our own case that is completely true. A lot of the writers on the other magazines are journalists first and foremost and maybe do not have the love and the knowledge of the product we all have and I think that very often that shows. I admit that in my own case I would not know an adverb from a split infinitive if it came up and kissed me on my old bald head, but nobody can say I do not have that same passion for Land Rovers that all our writers at LRM have.
I agree absolutely. There is a straightforward choice in deciding how to ‘buy’ editorial content, which we have to do, of course. We could get two or three professional journalists to work in-house and send them out to do it all, or we can use that money to pay a broad group of different contributors all with a different point of view and writing styles. Some are clearly professional writers while others wouldn’t claim any particular writing skills, but their enthusiasm comes across in what they do write. No one person, like yourself, who writes for LRM makes their living from it, they all do other things as well.
Each one is a specialist though, and that goes back to my very earliest days in Land Rover publishing. When Bob Morrison rang me back in 1987, for instance, and said: “I am a military Land Rover specialist, can I do some stuff for you?”, it just seemed to me to be the obvious way to get the maximum depth of coverage.
In any case, back in 1987, there were no professional journalists at that time who I felt knew a lot about Land Rovers (myself included) they just didn’t exist and are pretty thin on the ground even today – though I’m happy to say that the best ones write regularly for LRM. We want to work with people like you who write about and enjoy Land Rovers, that way the readers are guaranteed the best possible read.
And that, after all, is what it’s all about.
CHARLIE'S FINAL FIVE QUESTIONS
Can you remember the first time you saw or were aware of any Land Rover?
They came to me quite late in life when a friend bought one. He bought it because he had a young family and had witnessed a bad accident where two cars had collided. One was a Land Rover and the other was not. The Land Rover was hardly scratched, but the other car was mashed and so he quickly went and got a 109.
What has been your worst experience with Land Rovers?
With Land Rovers as such, as a vehicle, nothing. But something that haunts me to this day was the tragic death of Tim Webster who wrote for me at LRO. It was the very worst thing. For me there are two parts to this job. One is the Land Rovers that we all love, but they are just vehicles after all. The other is the people. You really cannot have one without the other and Tim going was my very worst experience.
What is your favourite memory concerning Land Rovers? It must have been meeting me all those years ago up at Bala. (Lots of laughing).
Well yes, but apart from that, my second favourite would be that, as an Editor, I have been able, I hope, to inspire and help people. You can’t make a person who is no good at the job good, but if they have talent you can inspire them and hopefully help to bring that out by editing and then publishing them. One who immediately comes to mind is Nick Dimbleby, one of my favourite people. He is very talented and successful now and, having had him with me from an early age at LRO, seeing him grow as a person and a professional has been very rewarding.
But for a simple answer to your question when Cathie and I first got together I said to her: “Do you want to come out with me on a Land Rover trip?” and she said: “Oh yes please”. So I told her she was in luck as we were going to drive down to the Italian Riviera for the Italian Nationals. It was a wonderful trip.
For a while after that she thought all Land Rover events were like that, but she soon changed her mind when she started coming with me up to Wales and found out they weren’t. As you well know Charlie there is nothing quite like a rainy day in Wales up on an exposed hill.
What Land Rovers do you have at the moment?
Our 90, ‘Tango’, has gone now to Andrew Cutting who also writes for us and I’m sure he’s looking after it well. We have a Discovery 300Tdi ES now – very luxurious with air conditioning and all. I know, I’m going soft but unfortunately because of time constraints we can’t do as much off-roading as we used to do.
Do you think that the day will come when you will not have a Land Rover?
Part of me says that one day I might stop doing all this magazine stuff and get my sensible head on, so then I might decide not to have one. Then my other voice tells me: “Of course you will, you will always have one – you can’t avoid it”. When we sold LRO, I was so hacked off that I traded in the Range Rover for a little convertible car because I just wanted a change. However, that only lasted for about six months and, of course, we had kept the 90 all along. |
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